We interviewed Thierry Boulanger, president of The Sabotage Studio (creators of The Messenger) and creative director of the new RPG they are working on.
The Sabotage Studios is one of the most reputable indie teams of the moment. It is not for less: The Messenger was awarded at the Game Awards and has become one of the benchmarks of the scene with its mix of action and 2D platforms and a very particular touch of humor. The team, based in Canada, is developing Sea of Stars, a JRPG inspired by 16-bit-era gaming that has been a hit on Kickstarter with over a million and a half dollars raised.
We interviewed Thierry Boulanger, president of the studio and creative director of Sea of Stars to find out more details of this new proposal, scheduled for 2022 and which has behind it a team of 16 people who are currently "working remotely because of the coronavirus pandemic. " All safe and sound continuing with a project that does not go unnoticed.
Meristation: Can the coronavirus crisis affect your plans with Sea of Stars?
Thierry Boulanger: We are in a very early stage of production, so we can intercept any setback like the current one. We are seeing many launches that are in their final phase, when it is surely more difficult to coordinate to carry out these last steps in this situation, but for us I do not think we will see an impact on development.
I understand that the entire team can continue working with some normality, for now.
They are all working from home. Usually we are in the studio, where we have a large open space, but obviously we are now remote. It is good, because we have people who work from other countries like the United States, and now we are all in the same boat: working from home and we can understand its reality … Although we want to be able to work together again, the truth.
Boulanger, during the interview with Meristation (remotely, of course).
Why did you decide to do a JRPG after The Messenger, a platform action game in 2d?
I suppose it may sound strange from the outside, but to us it follows the same course of action, because it is still a game with clear retro inspiration, and it is still our vision to go back to the classics and modernize them in our own way. We always wanted to do a JRPG, but as a studio at The Sabotage we couldn't do something like a start-up, it's too ambitious to pull it off with two or three people. The Messenger felt that we were doing something that we could attract more people to and was easier to present and sell because of their gender. We could say "ok, you don't know us at all but you can trust us with this proposal that has a more complex system". And it served to build us a name for new projects.
What kind of connection will there be between the two games? We know it is a prequel and they will share the universe, but … Is there going to be something else?
They share the same universe, yes, therefore you can expect easter eggs, clues … Some origins of the story and elements of certain great moments. All this can be, without entering spoilers. It will add value if you have played The Messenger, but we did not want to do something that was like a private club where if you have not played it you will not understand what happens. It is a prequel, and therefore it is not like a sequel where we assume that you know what happened before. We keep in mind that if you then play The Messenger, it all makes sense. The games have their own content.
The first time I saw Sea of Stars, I immediately thought of Chrono Trigger. I don't know why, I suppose some settings or some artistic elements. Weeks later, you announce that Mitsuda will be collaborating with the music for the game. How much Chrono Trigger inspiration is there in Sea of Stars?
It is one of the great inspirations, obviously. Chrono Trigger is my favorite game of all time (I tell him that it is Top 3 for me and he says that for him too, of course, because it is the first one), it is a game that I have always carried with me. There are many things in their line, such as compact dungeons, without random combat … Some games are very good but they always have tedious moments that do best not to replay them for those parts. Chrono Trigger was able to remove these frictions from other titles, and there is a lot to learn at the design level of that game. Naturally when you play Sea of Stars, if you come from the same era as us you will understand the developers and you will find many elements that are familiar to you.
Yes, we have grown in the 90s with Final Fantasy, Secret of Mana, Illusion of Time … What kind of combat system are we going to see? We know that it is in turns, but will you integrate elements such as the Active System Battle, combined attacks like in Chrono Trigger or is it a more classic Dragon Quest system?
At this point, Super Mario RPG is a great inspiration for combat, as well as its sequels. We want to make a very dynamic combat system, where you see the animations in combat and if you press the button at the right time, you will make a more complete animation with more damage. There will be elements of skill, we do not want a game where you are all the time on the menus and the level of your character is the key to everything. Bosses force you to learn patterns and strategies, know how to block your attacks at the key moment … Make everything more dynamic.
And the story, will it be important or are we in a game that is more focused on combat, grinding, etc.?
The story drives the adventure a lot. In fact, the progression of the character is based a lot on the events we live through. For example, some special moves are achieved through the story and not by leveling up. We are not in a Metroidvania strictly speaking, but we can expand our exploration finding objects that then allow us to return to an early dungeon to pass through other places.
Is there no need to constantly level up like in classic JRPGs?
Progress is tied to history, so we've left the game totally free of grindeo. The trailer is tied to the story, and keep you glued to it and its twists. As a general rule, we want everything to make sense and importance. This can make the game shorter, but also attractive to replay.
There will be no grinding, we want the improvements to be linked to the story and the combat system is dynamic, a la Super Mario RPG
The third pillar of the JRPG is usually exploration. What ideas do you have for this field?
It is a two-year project, so we are still building the general map of what we want to do and execute, but under this prism, we are clear that we can only lose vitality in combat, which means that any element of platform or Mechanics that need to do something at the right time, such as activating buttons, will have other penalties.
It will not be Dark Souls.
Not at all! For example, imagine that we fall off a cliff in an elevated area. You are not going to die, but surely you will have to go back through an area that you had already overcome to get there. There will be challenges but not related to losing life. This is on the table, it is not fully defined but we want there to be a freer exploration in this regard.
At what stage of development is the project?
Last year we dedicated it to pre-production, fitting in the team, preparing prototypes with the programmers and then we worked on the story, on the key elements of the soundtrack and we got on the Kickstarter, that's why we announced it so soon. Understand everything we need to build the game and now we're basically on the point of producing content.
I guess you know the biggest disappointment in Sea of Stars is that it doesn't go until 2022, right?
(Serie). Now, it can be disappointing but the other option was not to announce anything and wait another year, but people wrote to us asking what we were doing, if we announced something new and so on. But yes, we know. We work to get it out as soon as possible, but it takes time!
Kickstarter lets us know the interest of the game and not remove something that is a ruin; Despite the success, the proceeds do not cover the entire production.
When you think of Sabotage Studio, with a successful and award-winning The Messenger, you think it is a company with some money and a reputation. But despite this, Sea of Stars is announced via Kickstarter. Aren't there publishers out there or what?
There are, but we do not want to be in a corner where we have to get something forced, and the main reason for the Kickstarter was also to know the pulse of the people. A title that requires 16 people working, if you take it out on the street and nobody wants to play it, it is a ruin. The main reason was to have an early feedback that we were facing a good investment. Ensure what we were doing to ensure our viability.
Did you expect to get more than a million and a half dollars? Does it cover all the costs of producing the game?
We did not expect it and it will not cover all the production costs, but we have the rest to be able to get the game out, there are no problems with that. The truth is that the extra money obtained is very interesting, to have more key members of the studio not working full time but with more presence, to improve artistic elements with better animations, to have a guest in the composition like Mitsuda and above all, to be able get the game out when we plan without sacrificing any quality. It is our objective, the only metric we consider is the quality of what we do.
Are you focused only on Sea of Stars? Or do you have any ideas to further expand The Messenger or a possible sequel?
Our studio believes in focusing on a great project, talking about it every day and being focused on it. If we do more than one thing we will have less attention and the quality suffers, we are not a big team. We need to be in contact and have an important human contact to know what we all do. We will release a Definitive Edition patch for The Messenger, with some new elements, but now. I'm not saying there won't be a The Messenger 2 in the future, but we are not working on it at the moment.
And to finish: we see that The Messenger is in Game Pass. I would like to know, if you can answer it, how the developer system works in terms of income.
Basically you receive a fixed amount in exchange for an exclusivity period, but this amount is not affected by the number of downloads nor by whether you play more or play less. It is an advance payment, and you have to assess whether it is worth it. You think if those people who play it will end up buying it but we also think that it is more people who know your game. The Game Pass is a very interesting service, that's why we have used it, you never know if those people who have discovered you there will later be interested in buying the first day of Sea of Stars. There are more options for it to happen.
Sea of Stars has closed the Kickstarter campaign, but you can purchase the backerkit that is the game reservation and access to the demo this summer.
